Jesus threatened the current religious regime of his day, so they coerced secular authority to kill Him. Are we now seeing the religious regime of today angling to financially kill, maybe even physically kill those that threaten their territory? What are whistleblowers but those using a cord of whips driving the money changers out of the temple like Jesus did? Today’s temple are His people of the Kingdom now being enslaved by rich mega-pastors drunk with power and do not want to give up their territory. As you stated, Stephen, they fear His people
Excellent and insightful! I wonder if there are any pro bono law firms offering to defend abuse survivors and advocates in the event churches or pastors sue them for defamation?
Have you found any? Attorneys interested in putting a value on what is lost? I am also wondering about the value of losing your church fellowship. Are there “damages” recoverable in a civil lawsuit as there would be if you could prove wrongful termination or dismissal?
In light of the ACPE statement and this article, will you be commenting on it, Stephen? I am terribly disappointed by it, but wanted to hear your thoughts
Thanks for alerting me to the statement. I'm not familiar with this group. My immediate reaction is to recoil at the idea of a council of "Apostolic Elders." I've always admired how John Wimber avoided that title. He talked about having to stand before God on Judgement Day and hearing God ask: "So, you're my Apostle?"
I know that's probably not the kind of answer you were looking for, but I don't know what to say about the statement other than, at first glance, it's not a very effective apology, if that was the intent. But I'm looking forward to reading your take. Stephen
I believe the ACPE was started by Peter Wagner, who as you know was a good friend of John Wimber (I miss John so much). There are a number of leaders in charismatic circles as members. James Goll would be one who you would likely know. My disappointment was how cowardly and lacking in any authority or instruction on handling the issue, despite their purported “church leadership” title their name seems to communicate. Seemed so carefully crafted to avoid legal liability to be meaningless. It appeared they are afraid of Rick Joyner/Chris Reed….nice example of guiding victims, right?
I would have expected a statement regarding disqualification of leaders who engaged in criminal and immoral activity as instructed by Paul in I Tim 5. It seems they provided no guidance at all, just “we’re so sorry, what happened to you was wrong”. Thanks Captain Obvious….
Jesus threatened the current religious regime of his day, so they coerced secular authority to kill Him. Are we now seeing the religious regime of today angling to financially kill, maybe even physically kill those that threaten their territory? What are whistleblowers but those using a cord of whips driving the money changers out of the temple like Jesus did? Today’s temple are His people of the Kingdom now being enslaved by rich mega-pastors drunk with power and do not want to give up their territory. As you stated, Stephen, they fear His people
Amen! Thank you, Stephen. It’s very helpful to have this refresher.
Excellent and insightful! I wonder if there are any pro bono law firms offering to defend abuse survivors and advocates in the event churches or pastors sue them for defamation?
Have you found any? Attorneys interested in putting a value on what is lost? I am also wondering about the value of losing your church fellowship. Are there “damages” recoverable in a civil lawsuit as there would be if you could prove wrongful termination or dismissal?
In light of the ACPE statement and this article, will you be commenting on it, Stephen? I am terribly disappointed by it, but wanted to hear your thoughts
Hi Michael, Hi Michael,
Thanks for alerting me to the statement. I'm not familiar with this group. My immediate reaction is to recoil at the idea of a council of "Apostolic Elders." I've always admired how John Wimber avoided that title. He talked about having to stand before God on Judgement Day and hearing God ask: "So, you're my Apostle?"
I know that's probably not the kind of answer you were looking for, but I don't know what to say about the statement other than, at first glance, it's not a very effective apology, if that was the intent. But I'm looking forward to reading your take. Stephen
I believe the ACPE was started by Peter Wagner, who as you know was a good friend of John Wimber (I miss John so much). There are a number of leaders in charismatic circles as members. James Goll would be one who you would likely know. My disappointment was how cowardly and lacking in any authority or instruction on handling the issue, despite their purported “church leadership” title their name seems to communicate. Seemed so carefully crafted to avoid legal liability to be meaningless. It appeared they are afraid of Rick Joyner/Chris Reed….nice example of guiding victims, right?
I would have expected a statement regarding disqualification of leaders who engaged in criminal and immoral activity as instructed by Paul in I Tim 5. It seems they provided no guidance at all, just “we’re so sorry, what happened to you was wrong”. Thanks Captain Obvious….
Very good.
Stephen.c.deere@gmail.com